Svuda se zapatile vestice... | Forum

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redovan

Esther Dec 17 '11

Message #1

Sebi sam svecano obecala da vise nikad necu dopustiti da nesto pricam, a da nemam pojma. Npr. o progonu vestica u Srbiji. U Srbiji. Stalno pricaju kako to kod pravoslavaca nije bilo, jer su oni "bolji", "milosrdniji" ili kako god vec. I ja tuka, upecah se. Ha! I should've guessed.
U Srbiji nije bilo institucionalizovanog spaljivanja kao kod katolika. Ali ga je bilo.
Do pre samo dva veka, sa zenama koje su proglasavane za vestice u Srbiji se, kao i sa njihovim nesretnim "koleginicama" po Evropi postupalo bas onako hriscanski.
U selu Zabarima, u Pomoravlju su zenu koja se zvala Pauna Stanojevic po Karadjordjevoj naredbi privezali uz razanj i pekli izmedju dve vatre, da bi priznala svoja "zlodela", a kada to nije uradila, spalili je.
Rudnicki vojvoda, Antonije Pljakic je, za vreme Karadjordjevog ustanka u Karanovcu spalio jednu stariju zenu zbog optuzbe da je vestica.
1796. je kamenovana jedna zena u Mokrinju u Boki Kotorskoj, zbog vesticareja. Tadasnji crnogorski motropolit je aktivno ucestvovao u kamenovanju sirote zene, a lisio ju je i poslednjeg pricesca.
U selu Krnjcima u CG pre 160 godina takodje posumnjali da imaju "vesticu" te su jadnu zenu, po ugledu na svoju zapadnu bratiju bacili u vodu. Zena nije potonula, te je to bio sigurna znak da je vestica, pa su je ubili.
Poslednja vestica u Srbiji je spaljena 1803.
Da bi sprecio dalji progon "vestica" Knjaz Milos je zakonom zabranio maltretiranje i progon zena u Srbiji, sto znaci da su takve pojave bile ucestale. Takodje je, 1822. naredio da staricu Hristu iz Bozurnije u Kragujevackoj nahiji, koju su seljani planirali da ubiju ostave na miru:"... da se niko ne usudi da je i najmanje dodirne a kamoli da je i dalje naziva vesticom jer ona to nije."

U Rusiji je bila slicna situacija. Iako progon vestica nije bio tako veliki kao u zapadnoj Evropi, tu i tamo bi se odrzalo poneko kaznjavanje, cisto da hriscani mogu mirno da spavaju.

Witchcraft in Russia was known as Porcha. There were 6 categories of Porcha, but we will only look at 5 due to the unpleasantness of the sixth. The largest category of Porcha was causing damage that led to a loss of life. The other four categories were maiming, causing illness, depriving of reason, or causing crop failure.
The first Russian incident of magic was in 1024. After an extreme food shortage in Suzdal, several of the older people in the area were executed for causing the shortage. Later in 1071, several old women were executed for causing another shortage. It wasn't until 1271 that bishops began officially blaming famine on witchcraft and paganism.Witches were punished by the legal code Nomokanon. Nomokanon involved death by sword until the 12th century when it was changed from death to a simple fine.

There were three ways to initiate trials in Russia: catching the witch in the act, having a verdict of an inquest, or by torturing the accused until they admitted and named accomplices. The cases were tried by a military governor called Voevoda. Most of the accused appeared voluntarily. If torture was used in Russia, the most common type was known as Knouting. The accused would get 30-40 lashings in a single sitting which would be repeated 3 or 4 times.
In 1467, the first major trial occurred when Ivan III claimed that his first wife Maria of Tber had been bewitched to death. Ivan would later claim that his later wife, Sofia, was often visited by witches who were giving her potions to kill him. He ordered that witches be rounded up and drowned in the middle of the night.
A fire devastated Moscow in 1552, the same year that Ivan IV took the thrown. Ivan's own advisor started the rumor that it was Ivan's family who caused the fire. The church then advised the czar that witches should be excommunicated and killed. Ivan IV then issued the 1552 Ukaz, an edict which warned subjects to shun sorcerers, fortune tellers, and astrologers or risk the czar's wrath.

From 1622 to 1700, the fear of witchcraft increased greatly. However, due to Russia's acceptance of dual religions, only 99 people were brought to trial for witchcraft. Of these 99 people, 59 were men and 40 were women. Another thing that set Russia apart during this time was the lack of child involvement. Not only were there no children accused, there also weren't any child witnesses. Of the 99 whose fate we know, 21 were acquitted, 10 were burned at the stake, 5 were exiled, 3 died during torture, and 1 ran away.
During this time, everyone in Russia was affected. In 1625, Michael Romanov's first wife died supposedly from witchcraft. This greatly concerned him and in January 1632, he forbid merchants from buying Lithuanian hops because they were contaminated with witchcraft. He also ordered three investigations of the people in his court. The first investigation took place in 1635 when a female attendant dropped a hanker chief filled with herbs. The woman was tortured and admitted that she had received the herbs from a witch. The second took place in 1638, a couple of seamstresses told the czar that another seamstress had been sprinkling ashes over the staircase used only by the czarina. They found out that this was a plot against the czarina and ended with several families being sent into exile. The third occurred in 1642 when a male said he wanted to bewitch the czar's wife. He was sent to prison.
Tsar Aleksei would later believe that his wife was killed by a witch and ordered that anyone found consulting witches would be tortured. If they were caught multiple times, they would be exiled. He also formed a list of the black arts which included roots and potions, divining dice, fortune telling manuals, written incantations, and witches themselves.
In 1689, a high ranking official named Andrei Bezobrazov was accused of going to a male witch to get herbs to soften the czar's heart and assure that he would get a good post. He was found guilty of threatening the czar's life and was beheaded in red square. The witch he had visited was burned at the stake and the czar made Bezobrazov's wife become a nun.

Witchcraft persecution was slowly dying out in Russia during the 18th century. Peter I issued the Military Statue of 1715 which forbade witchcraft and other occult practices under penalty of death. In 1731, Empress Anna said that witchcraft was a fraud but people who practiced it should still be burned. In 1775, Catherine II started reforms and founded Sovestnye Sudy which literally means courts of conscience. They would look over all of the cases. The most common case they saw was women who claimed to be possessed. They believed it was fraud. The court also refused to accept evidence that would be labeled as superstitious. This along with the overall Russian attitude, led to the downfall of witchcraft trials in Russia.

Ukrajina, Gadich, 1667. Spalili 6 zena.

The Forum post is edited by Esther Dec 17 '11

admin

Predrag Stojadinović Dec 17 '11

Message #2

baš me zanima šta bio poukaši rekli...............

admin

byron22 Dec 17 '11

Message #3

Rekli bi: "To nije istina!".

Planet Earth Dec 17 '11

Message #4

Treba naći dublji smiaso u tome.

redovan

Esther Dec 17 '11

Message #5

Kakav bre dublji smisao?

Quote from Predrag Stojadinović baš me zanima šta bio poukaši rekli...............

Da je to narod na svoju ruku, da je to drzava na svoju ruku... i jos nepoznat broj glupih izgovora koji bi pravili ozbiljnu konkurenciju ostalim glupim recenicama i izgovorima koje su ispisali ove godine, "drugosrbijanci" biser included.

The Forum post is edited by Esther Dec 17 '11

Petar Mitrović Dec 18 '11

Message #6

Ne znam sta bi drugi rekli, ali ja bih rekao da mi je to odranije poznato, te da ne predstavlja nikakvo iznenadjenje.
Sto se tice mog stava u vezi spaljivanja kao i u vezi svih slicnih dogadjaja, to je za mene apsolutno neprihvatljivo i to sam vise puta ponovio.

The Forum post is edited by Petar Mitrović Dec 18 '11

redovan

Esther Dec 18 '11

Message #7

Meni nije bilo. A na ovom forumu je bio i Agapije sa Pouka, i igrom slucaja smo i jednoj diskusiji spomenuli progon vestica, gde je on rekao da to kod pavoslavaca nikad nije bio slucaj, itd, itd, tkoreci potpuno je zapenio jer je mislio da sam ja pravoslavnu crkvu optuzila za inkviziciju, sto nisam uradila, a potpuno sam sigurna da je on za ovo znao... na kraju krajeva, ako ti znas, koje su sanse da za to nikad nije cuo neko ko je studirao teologiju? Samo ne volim kad me lazu, to je sve.
A i na milion mesta na raznim diskusijama sam naletala da se katolicima prebacuje kako je to ona njihova otpadnicka crkva radila, a da to kod pravoslavaca nikad nije bilo.
Jasno je meni da taj progon nije bio ni izbliza tako organizovan niti u toj meri sprovodjen kao na zapadu, ali je gnusno otvoreno lagati...
Nemoj misliti da je ovo nesto licno protiv tebe, niti bilo koga, samo sam prsla sto sam nasela na popovsku propagandu... ali dobro, kao sto se na ovom primeru vidi, pre ili kasnije sve ispliva...

Quote from Petar Mitrović Sto se tice mog stava u vezi spaljivanja kao i u vezi svih slicnih dogadjaja, to je za mene apsolutno neprihvatljivo i to sam vise puta ponovio

I know. Citala sam i neke tvoje postove na Poukama, you're a nice guy. :)

Petar Mitrović Dec 18 '11

Message #8

Pa, znas kako... ne volim da govorim u tudje ime. Nisam pratio tu diskusiju a o. Ljuba moze i sam da odgovori ako to zeli.